Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

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deuceloosly
Posts: 44
Joined: 6 years ago

Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#1 Post by deuceloosly » 6 years ago

Hello my Brothers and Sisters,

I wanted to reach out to you all to get different perspectives. The organization has made a connection between service time and qualifying for certain privileges. I recently had someone close to me (mother in law) feel the effects of this. My Father in Law is no longer able to go to Warwick and assist even though he is an active elder because my Mother in Laws service time is low. This has led to her feeling pretty down about herself, and she feels responsible for stopping her husband from doing something he genuinely loved to do… which was go out to Warwick and help build the new facility. The local body decided she would not be able to go when she applied, and then that he would now not be able to go because of service time, even though he has been going off and on for months now.
I would like to put together a few solid arguments against this, not necessarily to share with the elders making the decision but for my wife who is upset about it and my mother in law.
It doesn’t feel right. I want to know if there is any scriptural justification for this action… that if you are not active in service you do not get spiritual privileges. For instance, I reviewed the qualification for Overseers and MS in the scriptures and none elude to “preaching time” as a qualification… is the service time requirement going above and beyond scripture?

Any help would be appreciated! Please reference scripture, I do want to be able to make a solid case, whatever that case is.

Much love and appreciate,
DL

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#2 Post by Marina » 6 years ago

Hi DL

Here's some scriptures that I thought of

Matthew 23:4a
Matthew 11:30
Colossians 2:8
Colossians 2:18-23

Also - it is not time that qualifies a person but how much he loves Jehovah and follows Jesus' example. All your time has been bought by Jesus really. I suppose that is why some are so keen to put themselves in Jesus' position because they can thereby claim the right to what he alone owns. Us.

What we choose to do or not do is out of a real voluntary spirit. We want to not because we are forced to but because we want Jehovah and Christ Jesus to be pleased with us. Just as a true child wants to please his or her loving parent. We don't slave for a manager/bossy-boots.
Marina

apollos0fAlexandria
Posts: 3450
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#3 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 6 years ago

Hi deuceloosly

I am confident that there are no scriptures to support this method of doing things. The burden of proof would certainly be on the elders and the org to justify this action as Christian in some way.

In addition to Marina's list I was thinking of Gal 6:4:
Let each one examine his own work. Then he can take pride in himself and not compare himself with someone else. (NET)
The whole ethos of the JW org is in opposition to this. Everything is measured in averages and arbitrary goals set by men. Having set these numbers then they are used exactly as a measuring stick for each person to compare themselves to others, and others to the average. It's clearly anti-scriptural.

I once took one of the new breed of uber-loyal CO's on a shepherding visit, and he informed an elderly infirm couple that despite there being many in the congregation who were unable to do much and who were therefore bringing the average down (yep he really did say that), the congregation average as a whole was being maintained (whohoo!). Somehow he thought that this would be personally encouraging to this lovely faithful couple, whose biggest discouragement was already the feeling that they were lowering the congregation average. As much as I tried to repair the damage the words had come from a CO and from that point on that they felt even worse about their situation.

Sadly, all that many of these appointed people can see is the organization and its supposed interests, and in so doing they lose sight of the sheep and how this whole business of measuring people by "time served" affects them in many negative ways.

Apollos

deuceloosly
Posts: 44
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#4 Post by deuceloosly » 6 years ago

Thank You Marina and Apollos!

I feel like I am between a rock and hard place though I continue to pray for strength. I want to share this with her for encouragement but don’t want to give too much away. I know it would be to hard for my wife if I stopped going to meeting ect.
I am carrying the weight of this organization when I want to be under Christ yoke. I recently went to the meeting with a beard, and one of the elders was very upset, he actually was short in conversation with me because of it. Very Standoffish… I had the chance to talk to an elder friend of mine about it, and the reality is I will not have any privileges and he felt that the beard is symptom of me loosing my faith in the “earthly organization”, and this is what personally bothers him about it. He thinks its stupid that I would give up “privileges” for something as simple as a beard.

Honestly, I come to this forum for encouragement, its getting very hard living in both worlds. I just want to be able to worship with spirit and truth, I didn’t realize that it would become so difficult. I am getting tired….

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#5 Post by Marina » 6 years ago

Further to Apollos' post

From about the 1830s onwards something called the Statistical Society was founded – Charles Babbage (who is considered a pioneer of the computing age) was its public face. But it was also backed by backed by others including Robert Malthus. Statistics are produced to influence decision making. But really the spirit of Jehovah and Christ Jesus' love should influence decision making.

In 1853 First International Statistical Congress took place in Brussels - the movement was gaining ground around the time of C T Russell's birth.

Prince Albert (husband of Britain’s Queen Victoria) believed that statistics would eliminate the need for religion.
Marina

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#6 Post by Marina » 6 years ago

Hi again DL
deuceloosly wrote:beard is symptom of me loosing my faith
It is almost too silly to be true isn't it. I get told off for thinking.

Best attitude to have is Matthew 10:14. I'm not advocating leaving unless you want to but just ignore them and avoid those with such silly ideas. I feel there is an increasing number of us who are past caring what 'the managers' think because they do not reflect Christ's spirit.

When they talk to you like that stick your fingers in your ears and go 'la la la la la' - discreetly.
Marina

GodsWordIsTruth
Posts: 2344
Joined: 8 years ago
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Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#7 Post by GodsWordIsTruth » 6 years ago

deuceloosly wrote:Thank You Marina and Apollos!

I feel like I am between a rock and hard place though I continue to pray for strength. I want to share this with her for encouragement but don’t want to give too much away. I know it would be to hard for my wife if I stopped going to meeting ect.
I am carrying the weight of this organization when I want to be under Christ yoke. I recently went to the meeting with a beard, and one of the elders was very upset, he actually was short in conversation with me because of it. Very Standoffish… I had the chance to talk to an elder friend of mine about it, and the reality is I will not have any privileges and he felt that the beard is symptom of me loosing my faith in the “earthly organization”, and this is what personally bothers him about it. He thinks its stupid that I would give up “privileges” for something as simple as a beard.

Honestly, I come to this forum for encouragement, its getting very hard living in both worlds. I just want to be able to worship with spirit and truth, I didn’t realize that it would become so difficult. I am getting tired….

Hi Brother :)

Boy have I been there. It's almost as if you never get away from them especially when family is involved. But stand on Gods Word and your faith. Trust him and he will sustain you. I felt like I was losing the battle everyday. Then God reminded me that I was a conquerer and the battle was already won. So I stood still because my best efforts could not control the situation. I surrendered my burden to him. He delivered me out of the situation better than any "deliverance" plans I concocted.

He delivered me in and from my brokenness. As I look back He was right on time even though back then I thought he was delaying!God meets us where we are. If we could deliver ourselves from this twisted situation we would get the Glory. God will keep you for his glory and deliver you out of this circumstance. The devil would love nothing more for us to be beaten down and distracted. Take heart that our Lord conquered these very same circumstances with the religious leaders.

God performs miracles in our own realities I am firm believer and I have seen it. I pray that God reveals to you that he IS moving in this situation according to your faith. I pray that you stay busy in Word , in deep prayer to God. He will grant you peace.(Isaiah 26:3)

Don't tire out my Brother! Keep fighting the Good fight!
GWIT

leaving_quietly
Posts: 766
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#8 Post by leaving_quietly » 6 years ago

I wish I could help, but I cannot. The organization is made up of mere men who cannot see the heart. "For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart." (1 Sam 16:7) The reality is, this isn't God's house, so they can make up whatever qualifications they want to. (Acts 7:48)

MeletiVivlon
Posts: 953
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#9 Post by MeletiVivlon » 6 years ago

Your situation dovetailed with something I read today in the Bible and something which Menrov commented on yesterday. The result is a short article on Beroean Pickets. Perhaps this perspective will help.

deuceloosly
Posts: 44
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Service Time and Privileges - Need A Different Perspective

#10 Post by deuceloosly » 6 years ago

MeletiVivlon wrote:Your situation dovetailed with something I read today in the Bible and something which Menrov commented on yesterday. The result is a short article on Beroean Pickets. Perhaps this perspective will help.
Thank You for this. This was part of my prayer being answered. All these comments have been. I just read through those chapters in Romans on Monday as part of my personal bible reading. I am continuing through the book. I cant believe how timely it has proved to be. Thank You again my brothers & sisters.

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